[EdLUG] Buying a laptop without Windows

Mon Jun 6 12:09:24 UTC 2016

To me the problem is not if Linux is going to become more widespread than WIndows or not. So, it's not a battle, like I want to make vendors produce Linux-laptops. We live in a real world and I understand that it's just a market and at the moment vendors see more benefit from making windows-based models as they're of higher demand.

The thing is that they can do it without limiting my rights. However, by not allowing to decline lincense and receive a refund for the windows copy, they are violating customer's rights.

I'm not a lawyer, so I cannot say for sure, but.. is it really legal? They bundle a 3rd party product with their one and force a customer to buy it. As soon as it's from a different company and it has its own license agreement, it's still a completely separate product which is not a part of the laptop.

If it's not legal to bundle the products withough giving a choice, means that they're breaking the law. I'm not trying to win a battle with MS, I'm trying not to comply with or support law violation

So far, I called Dell and observed that thier staff is not knowledgeable about this at all. They transfered me from Customer Care to Technical Support, then to Sales team and then back, not being able to comment about this situation. Although, there's a clear statement in Windows 10 EULA about possibilty of refunds.

Best Regards,
Maxim

> On 6 Jun 2016, at 12:10, Edinburgh Linux Users Group <edlug at lists.edlug.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> Well I recently bought a new laptop with Windows 10 installed.   For the first time there was no apparent need to accept anything to start using Windows 10.   I'm very happy with it (and I must confess I haven't thrown away the Windows ... call me a traitor if you wish ... )
> 
> However, I think we are still trying to fight a battle that has effectively been won on most fronts, and the one which hasn't been (the desktop) is becoming more and more irrelevant every day with the movement to mobile devices and the development of browser based applications to accommodate that.    There are other targets for our ire, and perhaps more dangerous since in many ways they have "spun" themselves as being open source friendly but meanwhile keeping our personal information that they have gathered about us behind a wall of secrecy.
> 
> We also aren't dealing with the same Microsoft as before, according to my observations.   In my particular areas of interest (database technology and application development tools) we've seen Microsoft announce or release Linux based products recently, which suggest that the world is changing.  I recall a (joking) conversation about 5 years ago with some people from Microsoft, when I suggested that I wanted SQL Server on Linux ... and yet in 2017 we should have exactly that.  And I don't think this is an attempt at "embrace and extend" like in the past, but simply a realization that if they want to compete in the Data Centre they need to offer their key infrastructure components on the Data Centre platforms of choice.
> 
> Just my tuppenceworth ...
> 
> BTW, my new laptop is an Asus X555L, which I got "loaded" for a very decent price.   Apart from the fact it doesn't have SSD (that was above the price wanted to pay) I'm very happy with it.   The i5 processor and the 8 gig of RAM were more important to me than the fast bootup time.
> 
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> 
>> On 6 June 2016 at 11:59, Edinburgh Linux Users Group <edlug at lists.edlug.org.uk> wrote:
>> I have heard good things from system76 computers, pre-installed with Ubuntu I think, although shipping costs may elevate the total price.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Alejandro
>> 
>>> On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Edinburgh Linux Users Group <edlug at lists.edlug.org.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's actually more expensive to buy a windows-free laptop. The licence cost is subsidised by the companies that post Microsoft to install all their junk programmes by default.
>>> 
>>> On 6 Jun 2016 11:39, "Edinburgh Linux Users Group" <edlug at lists.edlug.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Dear LUG members,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm considering to by a new laptop (macbook died and I'm a bit fed up with all the proprietary stuff) and of course I'm going to use Linux only on this laptop. The problem is that all laptops currently come with windows pre-installed. Even if they charge a very small tax for windows, it's my principle - I don't agree to pay any single penny to microsoft as soon as I'm not going to use their product.
>>>> 
>>>> The question is: do you by any chance know if it's possible to decline their license and get a discount/refund for the windows license? If so, what are the best shops/brands who make this process easier?
>>>> 
>>>> Today I tried to call Curry's, but the lady in their call centre had no idea about the subject. She also tried to convince me that "Windows 10 doesn't offer any license. You just buy a laptop and start using it. There's nothing to accept or decline"
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Maxim
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